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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2009, 01:40 PM
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Default Interesting poker tournament situation?

I've never really encountered a situation like this, so I wanted to post it here and see what kind of opinions I get.I'm in a PL hold em rebuy tournament. 12 players total, top 3 cash. We're down to 4 players. The chip leader has an absolute monster lead with about 38K in chips and he's, appropriately, being the bully. I'm comfortably in 2nd with 9K, 3rd and 4th both have approximately 3-4K each.I find myself on the button with QQ. I've been playing super tight, aggressive poker. When I raise, I have a hand.I make it 3x (1200) on the button. SB (a short stack) quickly folds, BB calls. His range is just astronomical at this point.The flop comes: 6s3s2hBig stack checks. I bet out 1500, making the pot 4200 (my 1200 bet, the 1200 call, 300 from the SB and the 1500). I now have about 6.5K in chips.The big stack reraises the pot, virtually putting me all in.I'm pretty sure i have him beat at this point. If I decide to push all in and win, I'm up to about 20K in chips. If I lose, I'm out on the bubble.If I fold, I still have about 2x the 3rd place stack.I could call and fold if the turn is dangerous, but that would leave me with less than 2K, putting me in 4th.What is the most"correct"move in this situation?Normally, I wouldn't fear the bubble, but you all seemed to have missed one solid point: This is a 12 MAN TOURNEY.$10 rebuy:1st: $1752nd: $1003rd: $754th-12th: $0Much bigger gap between 4th and 3rd and than 3rd and 2nd. Equal gap between 2nd and 1st and 4th and 3rd.Seemed smarter to me to go for $100 than for $0 or $175.


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2009, 02:24 PM
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I really think you need to forget about the bubble, and play your game.The reason is: You are pretty sure you got him beat, which you will have many many times with QQ here.and if that´s correct you will have about 20k in chips and a really decent chance to take the rest of he´s chips and win the tournament.If you lose... well it´s poker right, you had your money in the right spot.I am not a pro though, but that´s what i would do.


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2009, 08:03 PM
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You mentioned that 3 cash, but are the payouts significant? You had to figure that the Chip Leader could push on you, yet you raised anyway.You said his range is wide, so he could easily have you beat. He should know you have a hand, if you've been as tight as you say, and he's still check-raising you.You can't just call and fold. Fold now or push it in, but you should have decided this before you decided to raise in the first place. Without knowing the payouts, I'd call if you think you have him beat.


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2009, 09:30 AM
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What are you looking to do in this tournament, just make it into the money or are you looking for the win? When I play I do not just look to make it into the money I look to take it down. This should be an inta-call considering the big stacks range and what you'd be left with if you fold. The big stack could have nothing which you then have a big lead, he could have an opened ended straight draw which you would have about an 68% chance of winning, he could have a flush draw and you have about a 64% of winning or maybe he paired one of the board cards which would put you way in the lead.You can't be afraid of the bubble, if you want any chance of winning the tournament you have to call here. If he flopped a set, which I doubt cause he would'be reraised you all in or maybe he flopped two pair, well you did what you could, tell him good game and move on.Edit: Even with adding the payouts I'd still put all my chips in the middle. If you fold here you will have an"M"of 10.5, which is push mode anyway and a stack of 6500. Yeah if fold you would have almost 2X of a stack compared to 3rd place, but where will that put you now? What are the chances you will get another decend playable/pushable hand in soon? What if the two short stacks start pushing and stealing blinds or double up through a bad call from the big stack? Now you are still in the same position of possible going out in fourth without a cash. If all you are worried about is getting ITM then fold and hope one of the smaller stacks goes out soon. Like I said, I don't think he hit a set because if he was being a bully like you said then he would've reraised you preflop. A check raise is meant to look powerful especially when he's hit small or nothing and looking to push you off the hand because chances are you are afraid of not cashing.Hope this was helpful,thisguy


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2009, 04:12 PM
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shove it. you're playing for first, not second. he's playing big stack poker on the bubble. Since you submitted the question, I'm guessing you called and he flipped over two pair and you were out, but still, in this situation you have to shove.


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2009, 10:35 PM
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I'd guess you're looking at a set or a spade flush draw. More likely a set since he called your raise preflop. Either way you're taking a big risk by going all-in, regardless of how aggressively the BS has been playing. I'd grudgingly let him have the chips and fold. It's too close to payout time to risk being the bubble, especially since player 3 or 4 could go out at any time. You've still got a few rounds left in you at this point.Sure this is rockish and conservative, but do you play poker to play, or to win money? I can't believe how many people are saying risk the bubble or just go for it. Always avoid situations where the two largest stacks are up against each other for exactly this reason. You can spend the time that you're coasting into third place money licking your wounds.


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2009, 04:26 AM
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So what happened? Email me and let me know lol...I personally would avoid going against the big stack on the bubble, I probably would've folded. I would've guessed he had a flush draw or a set.


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